Rolex Submariner Serial Number

Learn to know the value of your vintage Rolex. What is the price of your vintage Rolex in current market?

Rolex Watch Value By Serial Number
Rolex Submariner Serial Number Fake
Rolex Submariner Serial Number 93150
Rolex Submariner Serial Number Location

One of the most asked question I get every day is, what is my vintage Rolex worth or what is the price of my watch? As this issue has been discussed in depth on every specialist Rolex forum since many years, I’m not trying with this report to undermine the conclusions but merely want to add more information about how to determine the value of your vintage Rolex. How do I find out what my Rolex is worth? And then, what’s the best way to sell it?

The most common thing to do to come to a correct pricing is by comparing the watches properly. If you want to compare, you first need to know exactly what you have so you can check it precisely with other examples known in the market. My previously written „Vintage Rolex Buyers Guide” will help you to determine the originality of your watch. Almost everything from the past Rolex collection is nowadays worth buying once it still has all original parts as when it was delivered by Rolex and the case has not been heavily polished. The original form of glossy and matt finished case parts, the sharp edges and screw thread need to be unharmed to be labeled as potential collectable.

All Rolex watches have serial numbers. With the help of the Rolex serial numbers, you can find out the approximate age of your Rolex watch. Furthermore, the.
Rolex Oyster Perpetual 40MM Stainless Steel Submariner Date With a Rotable Black Cerachrom Time Lapse Bezel And a Black Index Dial with a Date Wheel. $9,785.00 Rolex Oyster Perpetual 40MM Stainless Steel Submariner With a Rotable Black Cerachrom time lapse Bezel And a Black Index Dial.
The biggest change in Rolex serial numbers, however, came about by the end of 2010, when Rolex decided to use random serial numbers. Due to this change, it cannot be determined what year a Rolex was made if it was manufactured post-2010. There are several theories on why Rolex has done this.
98 rows FIND THE MODEL NUMBER ON YOUR ROLEX WATCH. As with the serial number, the bracelet must be detached from the 12 o'clock side of the case to be able to check the serial number. For instructions on removing the bracelet, watch the video above or call us at 1-800-494-3708.

Once your vintage Rolex has swapped parts, even with later original Rolex parts, the collect-ability goes down rapidly. Off course if it’s for the bezel insert only, you still can find period correct ones offered in the market to swap it back to original. But it is much harder and more expensive to find a correct dial that has been changed by worldwide Rolex dealers during one of the many services to bring back the waterproofness and durability of your Rolex, .

A unique Rolex serial number is recorded on each watch, giving it a unique set of numerals for the purpose of identification and record keeping, much like any other product. Older models consist of only numbers but around 1987, Rolex placed a letter at the beginning of the number that would change about once a year until late 2010, which is now a random set of numbers and letters. I have for sale a full set L serial Rolex Submariner 5513 in great conditions, with a strong case, a beautiful dial and original lume. Serial dates back to 1989 and the watch was sold in Spain in 1990.

Rolex Serial Number Reference Guide Below is a guide from the 1980s until the present. Instead of pairing one year with one specific letter, I’ve given them in range that Watch Chest over the years has compiled.

What I often see when people send me pictures of their Rolex is that the hands, crown and crystal have been changed. The changed hands are immediately visible by the non matching luminous of dial and hands. Below clearly visible the non matching handset with the luminous on the dial, the tone is of the hands are almost greenish whilst the dial is more yellowish. Besides that, the 24 hour hand is not mounted correctly. This should immediately ring your alarm bells telling you something unoriginal has happened, somebody has restored it incorrectly…

During services Rolex cleaned the movement, pressure tested the case and changed the gaskets and often changed also the hands so these become luminous again. After 1964 radium ones where forbidden and later tritium ones lost their luminance in 15 years. Therefore, before you start comparing your Rolex with others, it’s very useful that you check closely if all the parts are original. Within collecting Rolex there are hardly any steady rules. There are always exceptions one will find out when you dive deeper into the world of vintage Rolex. But let’s start with the most common basics by checking out the main information you need to gather when you start analyzing your Rolex.

The reference number or Rolex model.

The reference number is mostly engraved between the lugs at 12 o’clock. During the years the number changed from 3 to 4 digit in the 30’s, from 4 to 5 digit in mid 80’s and recently from 5 to 6 digits for the newest models. With some early 30-40’s models you see that the reference is added on the case back. If you know the reference you know what model it is. As most Rolex models have holes in the case where the push pin is holding the bracelet tight to the case, by using a small pin, it’s easy to remove the bracelet and write down the serial and reference number of your Rolex. At the end of this report I will summarize the most used Rolex reference numbers for you.

– Above, the serial number is clearly visible once you remove the bracelet, you see this Daytona is a reference 6264

– Below, the serial number from a Sea Dweller reference 1665 up close

The serial number or production number.

As Rolex was a clever company and due to the fact that many Rolex models were produced over the years, the system they used from the beginning by labeling the serial number to a production date was really great. You locate the serial number between the lugs on the opposite of the reference number, at 6 o’clock. From the beginning of the production till 1 million serial examples produced up till 1954, Rolex started over again at 1 to come to 1 million again in 1964. Then in 1986 they reached almost ten million (9.999.999 examples) and started using a character to define the year of production. With some early 30-40’s models you see the serial number was added on the case back. At the end of this report I will summarize a list of the Rolex serial numbers and their dates of production for you.

– Above the serial number is also visible now ( last 3 digits are covered ) making this a 2.731.xxx, which is 1971

– Below the serial number up close, 5.286.xxx making it from 1977.

Now you know which model you have and from what year it is, this is already important information to determine the approximate value your Rolex. Next you should find out if your Rolex is still all original or if it has non original parts / later service parts. It takes years of practice to learn to compare vintage Rolex in detail but despite this I will try to help you in the right direction.

As your reference number tells you which model you have you now start comparing your Rolex with one from my „reference” list below. Your focus should be on the typo used on the dial, the exact form of the Rolex coronet and if present, the bezel typography. Search for similarities but again, this needs to be done precisely. For your information, the indication „Swiss” or T SWISS T or SWISS T<25 at 6 o’clock indicated there was use of luminous on the dial. The first „swiss” only was in use before 1964 and means the dial is containing radium luminous. This changed in the 1964 to Tritium with the T SWISS T or SWISS T<25 markings.

Early SWISS markings at 6 o’clock telling us the luminous that was used is radium.

The from 1964 introduced tritium stamp at 6 o’clock: “SWISS – T<25” print…

Up close the “SWISS – T <25” print at 6 o’clock..

So many Rolex dials of so many different models but then, once you start studying them, you’ll find out more differences for the same type of dial are being made. Below Black Oyster Daytona dial all look the same but in detail there are small differences. This could be the font used, serif or non serif. The placing on the dial is not always consistent but divers per model. The cliche used for every batch / model is often been changed after it got old and tired, depending on the popularity of the model we see many changes in detail. Find below a comparison between ref. 6240 Daytona and later ref. 6263/6265, it’s very hard to see but indeed the right text has become a very small serif text…..

Here are some general advises for checking out the originality of your vintage Rolex:

First look at the Rolex coronet in detail. Every Rolex reference has it’s own coronet. Learn them to compare!

Secondly you look very very closely at the rest of the Rolex print on the dial, do this carefully. To make it even more difficult and make you understand what to watch for, here’s a link to an RPR article about Fake vintage Rolex dials I warn collectors for!

Then using simple techniques as a Geiger meter to see if there’s any radiation left on a Pre 1963 Rolex is very handy

If possible to open, the case back inside is giving you some extra info about the reference and in pre 1972 also the date stamp.

In some cases, you also see the watch maker marks, below in the middle to the right are the inscriptions made by the watchmaker who serviced it, if these start with GE you know Geneva has officially serviced it but in almost all cases are the marks not giving you any more info maybe except a date as every watchmakers uses his own system. Nevertheless ones you see these service marks in the inside of the case back, the chance is considerably that besides a movement clean, the hands, crystal and crown have been swapped as this was almost done automatically with every serviced watch. Rolex wants to deliver their watches back being waterproof.

So below the reference number is 6538 for Rolex Submariner Big Crown produced between 1956-1959, then below you see I.56, which means it left production at first quarter 1956 and all the way down you see a stamp that has shortly been used around 1956, the 18 which stands for the (high) quality of steel that has been used.

Then please use“John Goldberger’s 100 superlative Rolex App”for any comparison between your Rolex and one that is still in all original detail. Investing less then $25,= you get tons of precious information you can use to compare your Rolex after you found out the most import an basic information I described above. Follow thislink to the AppStore to download it on your deviceor if you prefervisit Goldberger’s website to acquire the book.

You have a great overview of all models by reference, you see all case backs, movements and dials. There’s no better source!!!

Very important information about the serial number and movement numbers are published for you to compare!

Last but not least, check my –> “Vintage Rolex Buyers Guide” again with the new information you obtained and double check all details mentioned in my report to come to a final conclusion about the originality and condition of your vintage Rolex….

Now you have an idea of which Rolex model you have, from what period it’s made and if it’s still in original condition (or at least parts of it ) you might want to check out the value by searching the sales results of the mayor auction houses which specialize in offering vintage Rolex. Every specialized auction house has it’s own database of achieved results. Find below a direct link to each of these databases where you can enter the info of your vintage Rolex to find out what a average sales price is in the market since last years.

Now we are talking about auction houses, let me just explain the basic rules of the vendor. Basically you as a buyer need to be sure that you want to bid on something that has your interest. Therefore the auction houses arrange viewing days prior the auction. During these viewing days you can examine the lots of your interest up close, ask a watchmaker to open the case back so you can see the movement, make remarks and do your own due diligence about what you want to pay for it.

The auction house provides you with information printed in their catalogue, additional info like copies from the papers, extract from the manufacture or service records. Once it’s auction day you can bid in all sorts of manners, for example actually bidding in the room, or by phone, by internet or by written bid. Once you’re the winner of a auctioned lot, you will have to pay a premium on top of the hammer price. That is the fee for the auction house which is in most cases about 25 % fee for hammer prices realized up to $ 100.000,=. Then 20 % fee for hammer prices realized from $ 100.000,= to 2 million and 12 % for hammer prices above 2 million. The seller who gave his Rolex to lets say Christie’s will get the hammer price minus 5-8 % costs.

The pro’s for selling by an auction house is logically that the hammer price gets up bid to a much higher number then the estimate was. Actually this doesn’t happen to often anymore because the experts of the auction house know exactly what a piece can bring, besides that they don’t want to ruin the expectations. An auction house earns money when they sell something successfully. If it fails to sell during the auction, then maybe it will be sold afterwards in private sale.

The con’s are the long time you have to wait before it get auctioned, the uncertainty if it sells and the total costs to use their service. Besides that it’s not at all certain that your vintage Rolex will be sold during auction. Sometimes by obvious reasons because the quality couldn’t meet the estimated price but also due to the fact that dealers are working together and not bidding at all so they can try to get it cheaper after the auction in private sale. Another more modern reason why a certain sale can work out negatively is the fact that we see on social media rumors been spread which could effects the sales price.

The other most used option is you offer it for sale at known or trusted dealers, those that have a reputation built up after dealing for many years in the market, have excellent feed back and references.

Once you gained enough information, you will know if the dealer is offering you a correct price. You could also discuss selling it by commission, so that the dealer get a fixed percentage of the sale and the buyer is wiring you the money directly. Pro’s of selling through a dealer is the fact that a deal is done quickly. You don’t need to wait as long as with the auction sale because they need to come up with a catalogue and in most cases travel around the world for previewing the sale to their clients.

Above Christie’s important watch auction in Geneva and below Phillips Auctioneers…

Back to “What is your vintage Rolex really worth now??”

It matters enormously where you ask a so called specialist for information about your vintage Rolex. If this is with your local jeweler or local auction house or if you do your effort to go to the big city and ask experts over there. The location is an important part of valuation. Logically those that handle the most watches are having the best inside information and are aware what is happening in the actual market. Asking for instance Christie’s in Sheffield will give you a different expert opinion then if you go to London, then the best experts are in Geneva, as the biggest auction sale is in Geneva. Luckily the experts are available by email so in most cases you when you don’t have an appointment with one, you need to take your time to get the best possible answer. Experience in this matter who to approach is handy but then when you go to the auction house website, they have their experts divided in categories, once you click on „watches” you will automatically see who to approach for a valuation. The same you can do by emailing me your questions or by picking one of the trusted RPM dealers….

Another option in finding the value of your Rolex is by using social media. Facebook and Instagram are modern tools that are extremely effective as with one click you’re in a group of collectors willing to give you the best possible advise. If this is on free forums like VRF (Vintage Rolex Forum) where you can login and ask you questions or the VRF Facebook group, quick and easy you will get an first impression when you load up a clear picture from the front. Instagram can be used also for expert opinions by tagging the experts you found out by google on the picture you show on you IG page. Here’s an earlier report of mine about the impact of Instagram. In most cases it already helps when you use # hashtags of the description of your Rolex. For example: #Submariner #1680 and add a question like: Can somebody help me find out the value of my vintage Rolex. By asking openly for an answer, in most cases you’ll be rewarded with helpful information. Collectors love to show off their gained knowledge so use them for your own benefit.

In the last couple of years the value of rare vintage Rolex has gone up rapidly. In the past people liked to invest in properties, stocks etc, but now we see many people that can afford to spend their extra money in art – collectables. If we look at the art indexes like below you will see that alternative investments are scoring a very high return on investment, if off course you buy with knowledge and from a trusted source. We see alternative art and collectors funds come up rapidly as lots of rich people want to profit from the popularity collectors markets have like classic cars, wine, jewelry and watches…

What does this mean for the value of your vintage Rolex? For example 2-3 years ago a Rolex Daytona with Paul Newman Ref 6241 dial sold for around € 50.000, whilst a regular Daytona sold for € 20.000,= as these models have been fashionable for many years. The current value of these Daytona’s has gone up to € 100-150.000 for the Paul Newman version and € 30-35.000,= for the regular Daytona. ( Get one thing clear here, that the difference between these 2 prices is only the dial, a dial which costs like € 50,= when the producer Singer made it end 60’s). Immediately the most important difference catches the eye, we see that iconic rare design went up in price more then the regular collection. People nowadays want what is special, been boosted on populaire blogs or comes into the news because a theme auction is giving them more awareness. In other words, those models that have been significant important for the grow of a brand, the 911 from Porsche, the Submariner & Daytona from Rolex are being picked up.

Back again to my initial question: „What is your vintage Rolex really worth now??”

As I tried to explain, we nowadays see that the market in rare collectables is moving fast. Many more dealers are active then for instance when I started organizing „The Rolex Passion Meeting” some 8 years ago. Besides more dealers, there are more customers in Asia, one of the biggest newcomers to the vintage Rolex market. Many new passionated collectors are rising in cities like Hong Kong, Singapore, Jakarta etc. Besides more volume we see at the same time that less high quality watches are being found farm fresh or coming from first owner in the market. Off course we have to realize that those Rolex models that have been produced in 1955-1965 are hardly found anymore. Due to the fact that a new generation has most logically inherited their father’s Rolex after some 50-60 years making it extremely rare a fresh find pops up…. Sometimes you’re lucky, like with this Submariner!

Besides the time factor a lot of more awareness and media has been published about collecting vintage watches and their up going value. Once a vintage Rolex was sold for more then 1 million and covered the Financial Times makes the possibility of finding another one almost impossible, although the same watch didn’t sell in the open market for €250.000,= some months before. In other words, the moment of selling is very important. I hear many serious collectors complain that there hardly is anything around what they can add to their collection nowadays. Indeed, the frequency that important new finds get for sale in the open market is much less then 5 years ago. Nowadays these ‘grail’ examples get sold immediately to the right person who is missing it the most in his collection. If this is through a dealer or through the private sale of the auction house, everybody knows everybody and eventually it will end up with that particular collector who pays the most.

a Million dollar baby, the RCO – alias “Rolex Cosmograph Oyster” Daytona

A rare Albino Daytona ( recently sold for 1.3 million SFR ) on the left and a tropical RCO on the right, both from 1 collector!

Coming back to the main question, what is your vintage Rolex really worth now, we have to make yet another distinction as many serious watch collectors are paying above market price as they happen to know that 1) prices for great original quality only goes up and ever growing scarcity, 2) by following the offers up close, they notice especially for the last 1-2 years that hardly any good offers come by as they used to see, making them willing to pay more, then for instance the last auction result for a comparable example. Personally I think the rare vintage Rolex will climb in price of the next following years. I also think that more regular but historical important Sports Rolex models like Ref.1655, 1665, 1675, 1680 will gain in price once they are not having any service parts and are not too much polished. Every 1950-is Rolex model will be highly collectable, not just the sports models like everybody is mainly focusing on but also the Precisions, Datejust, Day Dates etc. The 50-60 years of time span moves automatically so that in due every 1960-is and then 1970-is model will become highly collectable. Read by 2016 predictions…

Now we pick the models we love the most like glossy gilt Submariner or Daytona but in the near future a quartz Ref 5100 will be as collectable as well. The generation of watch collector evaluates as well bringing in new taste. In classic car collecting for instance, the future collectables coming in demand are those pictured on posters that were hanging above the bed of those boys being able to pay for their dream car now. The watch trends and their trend for collectability is certainly close connected with the car world. If it’s vintage watches or classic cars, the main reason you should have to invest in it is the pleasure you get back from it. If you’re clever and do your homework properly, you will find out what the real value of your vintage Rolex is. If you buy a vintage Rolex because you really like it, you will never loose money on it as the time you’re enjoying it, is the best investment you could have made!

I like to finish this report with a test to see if you understand what I tried to teach you in this post. Here’s a picture of a Rolex. Now before you scroll down to see my opinion, try to use the information I gave you in this report so you can come up yourself with the correct value of it. Good Luck!

OK, here we go. Once you would remove the pins on the side of the case using a pin, you will find the 7 digit Rolex serial number and the reference number. This will tell you it’s a Ref 1665 Sea Dweller. Then analyzing the dial, you will see that the graphics are different then the regular ones, specially the coronet and the lining of the SCOC text below on the dial. We collectors call this a “Rail Dial”. This dial has been produced by the Stern company (later owner of Patek Philippe) which also produced the Comex Seadweller dials for Rolex. This unusual dial we only see around 5.7 to 6.2 million serial making it when you study below serial number list from end 1978 – 1979. Next is to determine the condition, when you look closely to the finsih of the case and bracelet you’ll see the fine thin lines seems to be all original, smooth and steady, reflecting the light on a natural way. Specially the left corner lug seems to have some honest scratches on the chamfer of the bevel. The proportions are still looking nice and somehow sharp so the case looks to be in good condition. As I always try to focus on the “all over matching patina” we now focus if the different parts are having the same aging. The tritium luminous on the dial is a bit toned and is the same as the tone of the hands. From this we can conclude that they still seem to be the original ones. Which also tells us that most likely this Sea Dweller has not been serviced by Rolex yet as then most likely the patinated hands (with little corrosion on top) would have been changed. The crystal is not having the sharp corner on the edge which we see with service crystals but still the domed. The bezel insert is period correct and the little tritium dot is showing us a warm patina which matches the aging of the rest of the tritium. The matte black dial seems to be undamaged, look carefully at the edge, where you often see chips from removing the movement from the case for a service.

Conclusion: All over this is a great looking Rolex Sea Dweller, from the “white” period with rare “Rail Dial” still in adorable original condition, hardly or not polished, having a matching all over patina of case, bezel, dial, hands and bracelet. When searching the auction results you will see these sell now for € 10-15K euro, this particular model I would rate more towards 15K due to it’s fine condition.

The Rolex Serial Number List:

The Rolex Reference List:

The Rolex History by John Goldberger…

Rolex best invention, the waterproof OYSTER case…

See the trusted offers on RPM with some 400 vintage Rolex for sale, check them out to get an idea where important vintage Rolex dealers focus on….

I do hope you enjoyed reading this report and the information was useful for you. If you have any questions about your vintage Rolex, feel free to use the CONTACT button on top of this page or follow this link to send me your questions. Every day I get many requests coming in, which I do my best sending you a respond as quick as possible. If I might have forgotten or overlooked your messages, please resend it so I can make sure you’ll get your answer!

Cheers,

Collecting the Rolex Reference 1680 'Red Sub” aka 'Single Red'

“An Collector’s Experience”

by Mark Lerman

If you read this article you will be able to tell them apart (scary)!

Much of the information that I have learned over the years about the 1680 Red Submariner was gathered from the buying process. I have previously owned many Red Subs and currently own all of the watches whose pictures appear in this article and others. I would like to thank and acknowledge my fellow collectors, forum participants and vintage dealers whose support and guidance over the years has been instrumental in developing my knowledge base that has culminated in my collection and this article.

The Rolex 1680 reference model has to be one of my all time favorite vintage Rolex Sport models to own, collect and wear. I have decided to pay homage to this reference and the collectors who appreciate this wonderful model. This is not intended to be a history of the watch, but a collector’s preference and loose guide. The 1680 is one of the most attractive Rolex sport models, and certainly on the list as one of the top sport Rolex model icons and in the same genre as the Double Red Sea Dweller, Daytona, Orange Hand and GMT.

I thought it would be nice to share my passion for this model and possibly create some more awareness in fellow collectors. The following is my own personal guide for collecting Red Subs and the information may not be absolute. In fact, I expect there will be some disagreement and I welcome the discussion and corrections that follow. I hope vintage Rolex collectors who are not focused on Red Subs may also find some of this information useful because many of the concepts can be applied to collecting other Rolex sport models from the same era.

Red Submariner Dial Varieties and Case Numbers

The Red Submariner was produced with 7 different dial versions that have been recognized by the collector community. I have estimated the production range based on my experience with these watches as follows:

Mark I (Meters First) 2.07M to 2.2M

Mark II/III (Meters First) 2.2M to 2.45M

Mark IV (Open “6” Feet First) 2.45M to 3.?M

Mark V (Open “6” Feet First) 2.?M to 3.?M

Mark VI (Closed “6” Feet First) 3.?M to 4.0M

Mark VII (White Submariner) 4.0m to 7M+

Mark VIII (Luminova) Red Sub Service Dial

The above serial number ranges are guidelines and should not be taken literally, and like a lot of Rolex information out there, may be subject to some revision. They help me establish some boundaries that to follow in my collecting endeavors. For example, I will not buy a Red sub with a case number above 4M or a Meters First with a case number higher than 2.5M.

Why are Mark II/III dials on a single slice as well as the Mark IV/V/VI?

Mark II/III dials appear simultaneously so there is no way to distinguish which came first. In fact, I would have preferred to call them Mark IIa and IIb. But I have already seen references to them as Mark II and III, so I did not want to cause any more confusion. The Mark IV, V and VI have a much more defined chronological sequence, but I could not clearly define the breaks in the case numbers, so I kept them together. If anyone has more experience or has some additional facts, please let me know!

It is not uncommon (but not desirable for serious collectors) to find a later dial version in an earlier watch case. Such a discrepancy can be explained as the result of a service received in the decades old history of that individual watch.

I would be more than a little skeptical of a watch that has an much earlier dial version that is installed in a much later case. For example, a Mark II/III dial that is in a case number higher than 3M would raise some big red flags. I can’t easily imagine how that could have happened. It is possible a watchmaker had a dial lying around and decided to fit a watch that came in for service. The more likely scenarios is that the watch has have been put together from spare parts (aka a “Frankenwatch”). As a general rule, I would simply stay away.

The Dial Variations

Here is a chart that can be used to determine the various dial versions:

Mark I – Meters First Red Lettering over White (look carefully) Elongated Closed 6’s Long & Curvy “F” Distinctive Condensed Font

Mark II – Meters First Same time as Mark III Black or Brown Dial Red Lettering Printed white. Open “6” Thinner Font Longer “F” than Mark III

Mark III – Meters First Same time as Mark II Black or Brown Dial Red Lettering Printed Directly on Dial Open “6” Thicker Font than Mark II Shorter “F” than Mark II

Mark IV – Feet First Earliest Feet First Dial Red Lettering on white. Distinctive Open “6”

Mark V – Feet First Middle Feet First Dial Red Lettering Directly on Dial. Less Pronounced Open “6”

Mark VI – Feet First Last Feet First Dial Red Lettering Printed Dial. Closed “6” “S’ looks rounded not flat

Note: I do not have a Mark VIII (service dial) sample to share. But it’s easy to tell that one apart: It says only “SWISS” at the bottom and glows brightly because it is made with Luminova (not Tritium).

Coronet:

Mark I – Meters First

Mark II – Meters First Black or Brown Dial

Mark III – Meters First Black or Brown Dial

Mark IV – Feet First

Mark V – Feet First

Mark VI – Feet First

Dial Notes The dial is the most valuable component on most Rolex vintage models. The Red Sub is definitely no exception to this rule. If you have a Red Sub with a dial that needs to be replaced, a dial in good condition will cost thousands of dollars and is very difficult to find.

Mark II Brown Dial (Left) & Mark II Black Dial (Right)

The Brown Sub variant, as rare as it is beautiful, was most likely spawned from a manufacturing flaw. This makes it highly sought by collectors worldwide. I would consider a “Chocolate Sub” a grail watch! In my experience, Brown Dial Subs are only found in Meters First Mark II & Mark III dials and typically in case numbers in the 2.2M or 2.3M ranges. Brown dial subs are Ultra Rare because it is likely that only a small fraction of the dials turned brown and many if not most of those dials were probably destroyed or replaced during service.

Mark III -- Brown vs. Black

Mark II -- Brown vs. Black

There are a number of theories out about “Chocolate Subs,” but I believe that dials turned brown due to unstable materials that were used in their manufacture. The original paint material was intended to be black, but changed to brown due to improper mixing ratios or impurities in the chemicals. Whatever the reason, dials changed color over some time, possibly months or years after production. Due to the variances in the brown dials, some environmental factors such as light/sun exposure, temperature and humidity must have also have played a role in determining the intensity of the color change. The color change process took place in the first few years and is not ongoing.

Patina or No Patina

The world of Rolex vintage collecting is full of theories and mysteries. I have yet another theory that is shared by some collectors about how and why the markers and became yellowish with patina while other watches remained white. By talking to original owners, I have observed that watches worn regularly, DID NOT turn yellow, or develop a patina. On the other hand, watches that were unworn and presumably stored in a drawer or a safety box, turned color. The degree of patina or lack thereof probably depended on the amount of light exposure and other environmental factors not entirely clear to me. Similarly to the “Tropical” Brown Sub, the aging process stopped after several years and I don’t believe that the process is ongoing. The markers will not continue to turn white or yellow depending on light exposure any longer.

A more important question that needs to be answered about patina and that is ”How much patina is desirable?” Ultimately, this is a subjective preference. Some collectors like watches that look like they came out of the factory and prefer the white markers, while others like to see a more vintage look with more patina.

Patina can vary in degrees of intensity on all Rolex vintage watches. I have attempted to make a scale for easy reference:

0 Stark White

1 Off White

2 Light Yellow(Light Creamy)

3 Golden Yellow (Creamy)

4 Darker Yellow (Turning Brownish)

5 Brown (simulated)

6 Brackish (simulated)

When evaluating patina, the main thing to look for is that markers have nice EVENLY colored patina and that they do not have dark spots or streaks (marbling). Although the darker patinas (5+) can give a watch a really interesting look, the they tend to be more likely to have markers with discoloration problems. It is also important to note that matching patina on the dial with the hands is also important. (See the section on Hands.) Watches with strong even patinas (3 & 4) are highly sought by collectors and bring strong premiums!

Dial Imperfections

Due to natural aging, minor dial defects are acceptable and unavoidable when collecting Red Subs.

1. “Broken” Hash marks are the most common minor imperfection found on Red Sub dials (and other matte Rolex dials). Small parts of some of the hash marks chip off where the case meets the dial. This chipping occurrs when the watch is taken apart for service. It is so common that it is one of the “tells” used to confirm authenticity. Therefore, small chips or missing pieces at the end of a hash mark touching the case, or even a few hash marks, is normal. However, if an entire hash mark is missing, then this can be easily seen with the naked eye and has an adverse effect on value.

2. Tiny chips where the dial meets the case are also fairly common. When they are and difficult to notice with the naked eye, it is not a problem. I would avoid dials that have chips that are larger.

3. Tritium Loss on the markers Red Sub dials is fairly common and is perfectly acceptable. I would try to avoid watches with dials that have large chunks of missing tritium to the point where it is a distraction.

4. The Red Writing (“Submariner”) on dials that have Red over White printing is almost always imperfect due to the manufacturing process used to create the dials. It is normal for these dial versions (Mark I, III, IV) to show some white on the edges of the letters. It is also natural for some white to show through the red lettering.

“Aftermarket” Parts aka “Fakes”

Watches that have aftermarket dials, also known as fake dials, should be avoided at all costs. Most of these watches have many other fake parts and you are probably buying a few hundred dollars in parts for thousands of dollars!

It is also a good idea to stay away from watches with “refinished” dials. These are dials that have been scraped of all original print material and then “reprinted,” usually very poorly. I have seen claims that the dial is an “original” Rolex dial, which is technically true, however once refinished they are pretty much worthless.

I would also stay away from relumed dials because these dials never look as good as the original factory finish. Relumed dials are more acceptable on older gilt models, depending on rarity and condition of the rest of the watch. Red Sub markers typically do not degrade enough to warrant redoing. Therefore, Red subs with relumed dials have a very low demand and trade at steep discounts.

Hands

Hands should match to the patina on the dial. If hands do not match, have been relumed, or have been changed to Luminova, it can be an eyesore. However, hands can be replaced without too much effort. But depending on the patina, they can be difficult to find in the right color. If you buy a watch that needs hands to be changed, hopefully, you are getting a slight discount for this and are patient enough to find the hands that match. Most collectors prefer matching tritium hands that do not glow, but Luminova hands can be a nice match to a dial with very white markers.

I do not mind original hands that have some minor oxidation or corrosion or even small cracks in the Tritium. As long as these imperfections are not a distraction, I will not change these hands in order to keep the watch as original as possible. I only replace hands when they do not match the color of the dial patina or have noticeable chunks of missing Tritium.

Inserts

The insert can “make” the watch and is probably the most aesthetic component aside from the dial! The most desirable inserts are the “FAT FONTS” which came installed from the factory originally. The amount of fading someone prefers is a personal preference and also depends on the watch for which it is intended. In the past few years, prices of attractively faded “FAT FONT” inserts have increased dramatically. These used inserts fetch high premiums even when they are scratched up.

I would certainly add a premium if a watch had an especially nicely faded “FAT FONT” insert. While inserts are more easily replaced than other components, like the hands, they can be expensive and difficult to find, keep this in mind when buying a watch that has a “Thin Font” service insert.

The thinner font varieties are service replacement inserts and later came with Luminova pearls. They do not tend to fade and are still available from Rolex today. They are usable, but they do not enhance the look of a watch like the faded inserts with the fater fonts.

There are several versions of “Font Thicknesses” on inserts and an infinite amount of variations of fading and wear.

Thickness varieties, service replacement version (2nd from right).

“Pearl” Dot

The pearl is one of the least critical components when purveying a Red Sub but buying a Red Sub that still has a tritium pearl on the insert that is still intact is like getting the “cherry” on the cake. Most pearls lost their luminous material or broke off altogether. Although they can be easily replaced, they are getting difficult to source.

Aesthetically, the pearl is not part of the dial and hands ensemble and therefore the color of the pearl does not have to be as close in color match as the dial and hands.

Caseback

The Red Sub casebacks starting with the 2M case numbers and ending with about 3.4M were stamped with a date code starting with “II 69,” and ending with “II 72.” Somewhere in the 3M range, the date code was dropped. It is pretty clear that all watches from 1973 onward did not have a stamped date code. Rolex service replacement casebacks did not have date codes.

Case Condition

Next to the dial, the case is the second most important and valuable component of a Red Sub. Unlike hands or an insert, a case is something you cannot easily change or improve on a watch without buying another. Therefore, it is important to gauge the case condition and make sure it is strong enough to suit your tastes. Most watches will have been polished at least once. It is very rare to find a Red Sub with an unpolished case. I have learned to treasure such finds and would pay a very strong premium for an unpolished case even if the watch has other inferiorities.

Polishing a watch is definitely an art form more so than fixing a watch. It is very easy to “ruin” a watch with a bad polish and just because a watch was serviced at Rolex does not mean anything when it comes to how poorly it was polished.

One has to remember, that polishing, no matter how light, takes metal off the watch. Therefore, unless there is a very specific gouge or scratch is causing a distraction and only in an area that has already seen polishing, I would not even consider polishing a case any further. I consider this wear part of the beauty of wearing a vintage watch and eliminates that most awful feeling of putting on that first scratch on a new or freshly polished watch. The only thing worse is getting your first ding on that brand new sports car.

Here is a loose guide to evaluating cases in order of priority:

1. Case Engravings –The engravings help authenticate the case and therefore it is important that they are not completely lost from bracelet wear, pitting or intentional mistreatment. Unlike some earlier Rolex references, Red Subs generally don’t have severe bracelet wear problems or pitting. Therefore, I would not consider buying a Red Sub with engravings or a case numbers that have worn off completely. As a minimum requirement, all the case number digits must be present and accounted for. Even if the digits are missing most of their form and a 10x loupe is needed to read the numbers, as long as the full case number can be discerned, then the watch earns a passing grade in my book. Once the numbers have been confirmed and the band is back on the watch, the strength of the engravings becomes irrelevant.

2. Lugs – Examine the lugs to make sure they are not too thin and that they are about the same thickness. Sometimes in one of the lugs sustains a serious injury and the owner has no choice but to over-polish one of the lugs making it thinner than the others.

3. Crown Guards -- Look at the crown guards to see if they have been polished to a “pinch.” It is also a good idea to compare the size of the crown guards, as sometimes one side can be polished significantly more than the other.

4. Pitting or Corrosion –Slight pitting is normal, but Excessive pitting or corrosion can be detrimental. Check between the lugs and where the case meets the caseback. Avoid watches that have severe problems with corrosion or if the pitting completely obliterates any of the digits of the case number.

Crown

Red Subs with case numbers <3M were manufactured with “Twin Lock” Crowns. These crowns do not have “dots” under the Rolex logo. Subsequent crowns had 3 small dots under the crown and were called “Triplock” crowns. Most watches that went in for service were upgraded to Triplock crowns after their introduction in 1973.

Although there are no premiums attached to having either crown, it is nice to see a watch with its original Twinlock crown still in place. This novelty adds a small flair of authenticity and some reassurance that the watch is still in its original state.

Bracelet

The bracelets are easily changed and therefore I would not look critically at a watch without a bracelet or if a watch has a later bracelet. I readily admit that I am not an expert on bracelets, so if you have any corrections or input, please feel free to make additions or corrections.

There are 5 bracelets that were manufactured by Rolex that fit Red Subs: (Updated 11-10-10)

1. The Early Red Subs were fitted with 7206 Swiss Made Bracelets with 80 End Pieces.

2. The 9315 Folded Link is considered the “correct” bracelet model for the Red Sub. Here are the important points to note:

The model “9315” should be stamped just prior to the end piece on at least one of the links.

· The correct end pieces are stamped “280” or “380”

· The clasps were date stamped from “67” to “72” Clasps without date stamps are from 1973+

· The folded bracelet was manufactured until the late 1970s

· The earlier version of the bracelet is known as the “Patent Pending” and is more expensive for its rarity and from demand by Double Red Seadweller collectors. They are stamped from “67” to “70” on the clasp and have “Pat Pend” stamped on the diver expansion when it is unfolded.

· It is not critical to have the exact year of your watch stamped on your bracelet or the date on the caseback. A bracelet that is dated a year or two after the caseback is perfectly fine.

· Unfortunately in order to shorten the bracelet, links have to be removed by a watchmaker or jeweler. It is also difficult to reinstall the links once removed and the links will be bent out of shape.

· Even bracelets found in superior condition tend to be very loose and feel flimsy when compared to modern bracelets, therefore most people find that they do not make a good daily wearer.

3. “USA Made Riveted” Bracelets -- There have been more than a few Red Subs that were purchased from original owners that had USA Riveted bracelets on them. Whether they were originally installed, requested by the customer or switched by the dealer, we may never know for sure. Don’t be surprised if you find a Red Sub with this bracelet configuration. Keep these points in mind:

· These bracelets do not have a model number stamped and are simply known as “USA Made Riveted” Bracelets

· There is no diver expansion or a flip lock on this bracelet

· The end pieces are attached to the bracelet and are not stamped

· The clasp is the only component with stamped hallmarks

· There is always a date stamps that ranged from the 1960s to the late 1970s

· These bracelets have a “cheaper” feel than any of the other bracelets

4. Occasionally, a Red Sub will be found to have a 7836 Folded Link bracelet installed. Although it was designed primarily for the GMT and the Explorer II, the 7836 fits the Red Sub perfectly and can take “280” or “380” end pieces. The only major difference between the two models was the clasp. The 9315 had the flip lock and the diver’s extension and the 7836 did not have these two features.

5. The 93150 Solid Link with 580 end pieces was introduced in the late 1970s and is fully compatible with the Red Sub. In fact it is the most comfortable wearing bracelet for the Red Sub as well as other vintage Rolex models. These bracelets are less expensive than the 9315 because they are more readily available and are not sought by collectors looking to complete their Red Sub sets.

I prefer this bracelet for daily wear because it has a great feel/weight and the end pieces seem to fit better than the earlier models. Also, the links can be easily removed or added with a small screwdriver.

The Movement

The power plant of all Red Sub models is the Rolex made “1575,” however all the engravings I have ever seen on the rotor bridge are have been marked “1570.” The 1575 is the same movement as the 1570, with the exception that the 1575 has a date function. The same movement was used in all the Rolex sport models like the 1675, 1655 and the 1665. It is a great automatic movement that is relatively inexpensive to service with parts readily available. When oiled and regulated, it can run for many years with great accuracy and dependability.

Since the movement and/or parts are easily obtained, or simply swapped with much less expensive Rolex models of that period, I would not look to the movement to verify if a watch is genuine.

If a watch is running strong, it is certainly a plus, but I would not discount a watch if it is not in perfect running condition. But I would rather get a watch in its original condition and have it serviced my way. It can be some trouble and expense to have a service performed, but it is a small price to pay for a nice original Red Sub. There have been numerous times when I have had owners who decided to sell their watch take them in for service, only to have them “ruined” from a collector’s point of view.

Box & Papers

When I first started collecting, I sought out watches with papers because it helped reassure me that the watches were not stolen or fake. Over some years, I learned that these are not primary reasons to buy watches with papers. I heard the statement “You can’t wear the papers.” Many times. The question is why bother paying all that money for watches with papers?” The answer is simple: RARITY. Rarity means collectability. I was very glad to have made this decision, because the watched I bought increased in value more dramatically than any of the loose watches that I collected.

Papers are not for everyone. If you simply want a nice watch for the lowest possible price and are not looking for an investment, forget the papers, buy a nice Red Sub and enjoy!

Papers are for serious collectors who are looking for investment grade pieces. In the recent market upturn, it was clear that because of their rarity, that watches with papers accelerated in value when compared to loose watches. This will very likely repeat itself in the next upturn. Most collectors recognize this phenomena and this is the reason that sets with papers still fetch healthy premiums.

It is important to note that Red Subs may have come with a variety of papers from the dealer. The Red Subs that deserve the “with papers” premium are the ones that come with either of the PUNCHED GREEN CERTIFICATES (with a matching case number) pictures here. Even though dealers sometimes used papers on which they wrote in the case numbers by hand, handwritten papers do not carry the same premium as punched papers. The same applies to blank papers.

The earlier Red Subs had the smaller green paper that was punched. These papers we printed on thicker stock and had no watermark. They were accompanied by a small booklet titled “Your Rolex Oyster” in which the back pages could also be punched. This is called “double punched.”

Rolex Watch Value By Serial Number

Around the 2.8M case number, Red Subs started getting the larger green-border certificate that was printed on thinner paper and had the Rolex watermark when held up to a light. The small white booklet is renamed “Your Rolex” was no longer punched.

Rolex Submariner Serial Number Fake

Although the boxes and other accessories are a nice addition to any watch, given enough time and money, they can all be purchased separately from a variety of sources, including online. Therefore, I would concentrate on the core of the acquisition, in terms of condition and punched papers.

Rolex Submariner Serial Number 93150

A Buying Tip

Rolex Submariner Serial Number Location

It is impossible to authenticate a watch to be 100% genuine from pictures alone. Therefore, I highly recommend that you never buy a watch without the right to return it or from someone you do not know. Look for sellers who have a reasonable no hassles return policy and have a good reputation that they want to protect. One of the most important things is to work with a seller who knows Red Subs intimately. Sellers who sell a lot of other Rolex models or even more expensive watches can easily make a mistake when taking a trade and may try to pass along a problem watch, sometimes unwittingly, to an unsuspecting buyer. Proving a watch you bought is a fake to someone who only cares about their cash flow is not all that easy. If you are lucky enough to have used a credit card with buyer protection in this situation, you may still have a tough time getting your money back. It may come down to having a third party give you a written evaluation. This is not an easy task even where an obvious fake is concerned. Even Rolex will refuse to take sides or do anything on your behalf in this situation. The best thing to remember is “Buy the seller not the watch.”